ANTONY BLINKEN: If you look at the countries
that Russia has attacked over the last years, Georgia,
leaving forces in Transnistria and Moldova,
and then repeatedly Ukraine, these were countries
that were not part of NATO.
It has not attacked NATO countries for probably
a very good reason.
RAND PAUL: You could argue the countries they've attacked
were part of Russia.
ANTONY BLINKEN: Well, that--
RAND PAUL: Or were part of the Soviet Union.
ANTONY BLINKEN: Yes, and I firmly
disagree with that proposition.
It is the fundamental right of these countries
to decide their own future and their own destiny.
RAND PAUL: I'm not saying it's not,
but I'm saying that the countries that have been
attacked, Georgia and Ukraine, were part of the Soviet Union,
and they were part of the Soviet Union since the 1920s.
ANTONY BLINKEN: But that does not give Russia
the right to attack them. On the contrary--
RAND PAUL: No one's saying it does,
but it really has nothing to do with--
ANTONY BLINKEN: They were liberated from being
part of this empire by force.
Let me just say this, because I do think it's important.
If you look at why President Putin went into Ukraine
this time, we took very seriously the arguments
that some Russians were putting forward back last fall
that they had concerns about Ukraine's eventual membership
in NATO in terms of their security posture,
Russia's security posture.
What would this mean in terms of the placement
of forces near Russia, weapon systems, et cetera?
We sought to engage them on those issues
in real seriousness, as well as engage them on deep concerns
we have about many of the things we
do that undermine our security.
But when everything came to a head,
it is abundantly clear in President Putin's own words
that this was never about Ukraine being potentially part
of NATO, and it was always about his belief
that Ukraine does not deserve to be
a sovereign, independent country,
that it must be reassumed into Russia in one form or another.